"if you wish to have a striking evidence of the worth of our government, you need notice only one thing," said an entirely unprejudiced russian to me one day. "we have as many questions as we have classes of population. we have a finnish question, a polish, a jewish, a ruthenian, and a caucasian question. we have, besides, a peasant question, a labor question, and a sectarian question, and, moreover, a student question also. wherever you cut into the conglomerate of the russian population, lengthwise or crosswise, everywhere you strike conflicts, combustibles, and tension. not a single one of the problems which may exist in organized states in general is solved, but every one has been made burning and dangerous through unskilful, brutal, and even malicious handling."
the man who spoke in this way was not a liberal, but a conservative aristocrat in the state service. i had reserved him for the end in my journey of research. after i had had conversations with high[pg 236] officials in the departments of education and of finance, with men like prince ukhtomski, with bankers and with lawyers, and had heard always the same story of the instability of things and the worthlessness of the régime, i turned to the friends who by their influence had smoothed the way for me everywhere, and said to them: "this cannot go on. i did not come to russia merely to be shot, as it were, out of a pneumatic tube through a collection of liberal and radical malcontents. i do not wish to hear merely the opposition in russia. you must gain access for me to some prominent conservative also, one who stands on the basis of the present system, and who honestly and in good faith defends it. it need not be suvorin or any other man of questionable honor, for i myself can apply stahl's theories to russian conditions. it must be a sincere, reputable, and sensible man with whom i can discuss the most widely different questions with or without an interpreter; either is the same to me."
my request was readily granted. a scholar admired almost to the point of worship, in whose house i had been entertained, gave me a letter to the conservative aristocrat whose words i have quoted at the beginning of this paper. this letter i forwarded to the honorable gentleman in question, asking for an interview, and by return mail i received a reply stating that he would expect me that same afternoon.
[pg 237]
i must confess that i anticipated this interview with some qualms. it was towards the end of my visit. the results hitherto obtained had the disadvantage of a certain monotony of sombreness, with, however, the advantage also that each succeeding interview only strengthened the impression gained from previous ones. thus by degrees i had formed a very sharply defined image of russian conditions—such an image as is pictured in the mind of the thinking russian. was this clear and distinct image now to be dispelled by the lye of this conservative critic, and was i to lose the chief result of my journey, a confidence in the trustworthiness of the data hitherto accumulated?
i met the gentleman at his house at the appointed time, and learned at once that i had been especially commended to him. i therefore entered without hesitation upon the matter in which i was interested.
"i do not wish," i began, "to go through russia in blinders. if your excellency, as a conservative, will have the goodness to refute what i have heard hitherto, and will give me more accurate information, i shall be under great obligation."
"what have you heard?" asked the count.
"that russia is starving, while the papers report a surplus in the treasury."
"that, unfortunately, is true."
"that your thinking people are in despair."
"also true."
[pg 238]
"that a revival of the reign of terror is to be feared."
"equally true."
"that all russia hopes the war will be lost, because only in that way can the present state of things be brought to an end."
"true again."
"that the present régime passes all bounds of depravity, and can be compared only with the pr?torian rule in the period of the decline of rome."
"that understates the truth."
my face must have taken on a very strange expression during this brisk play of question and answer, for the count now took the initiative, and said:
"you are, i can see, surprised that i, as a conservative and a state official, should answer in this way; but i hope you do not consider 'conservative' and 'infamous' synonymous terms. if you do not, you will not expect me to approve the régime of plehve. that is not a conservative régime. it is the régime of hell founded by a devil at the head of the most important department." (here came the speech with which this paper began.) the count then proceeded: "do not suppose that russia is of necessity smitten with such serious problems. these questions are nowhere simpler than with us. we have no national problems like those of prussia, for instance, or of austria-hungary, which are complicated by the fact that majorities and minorities are mixed together almost beyond [pg 239]separation. we have even in poland almost no national aspirations regarding which we could not come to a peaceable understanding. our nationalities live almost entirely distinct, in compact bodies side by side; even the finns are politically separate. it would be an easy thing to make them all contented under just maintenance of the supremacy of the czar. but the priestlike intolerance of pobydonostzev has spread the idea in the world that all diversities of religion and speech must be ironed out with a hot flat-iron, even at the risk of singeing heads. since then it is considered patriotic to repress men and convictions. for this business unclean creatures are to be found who make careers for themselves in this way; and their prototype is the tenfold renegade plehve."
"yet i cannot conceal my astonishment, your excellency, that you, as a conservative, have this opinion of the system of pobydonostzev."
"why is that so illogical? conservative thought is, above all, that of organic development. all violence is revolutionary in its essence, whether it serves reactionary or republican tendencies. the system of pobydonostzev is revolutionary and reactionary. in his fashion plehve, however, is simply a monstrous bill of extortion against the czar as well as against the shackled nation."
"your excellency of course refers to the idea that plehve intimidates the czar by threats of revolution?"
[pg 240]
"that is not an idea simply; it is a fact, of which we have very definite information. but what not every one knows is the fact that we have no one but plehve to thank for this war, which may be a catastrophe. he had a finger in all the man?uvres of delay which provoked the japanese to war, because he believed that he could no longer preserve himself in any other way than by diverting public attention from conditions in the interior, and by ridding himself of those who were dissatisfied with him into the bargain."
"how the latter?"
"you do not know? it is very simple. the first men who were sent to asia were the poles, the jews, and the armenians. among our troops the poles were five times as largely represented, and the jews even more so, than they should have been according to their census number. and you must search to discover a christian among the reserve surgeons. why is this the case? to get rid of the most important elements of the malcontents for years, perhaps forever. of course, the poles, the jews, and the ruthenians have the most cause for discontent. meanwhile there is peace at home."
"not to a remarkable extent, i observe."
"wait. the students, who are so incautious in airing their ideas, will come to know the east."
"your excellency, no radical has spoken like this."
"i can well understand that. the honorable[pg 241] radicals have much less cause to be dissatisfied with this rule of banditti, for it sends the water to their mills. but a conservative like myself sees with horror that all the foundations of the conservative order of things are undermined, and that we are approaching exactly the same convulsions that france experienced after the spontaneous downfall of her absolute monarchy."
"in what respect, then, does your excellency distinguish yourself as a conservative from the so-called liberals? certainly not in criticism?"
"i will explain. the liberals are girondists, with their ideas adopted from cahier and rousseau. minister turgot was a conservative, who wished to save the monarchy by trying to make an end of the loose management of favorites. we conservatives do not believe in a constitution or a parliament as the only means of salvation. we russians are anything but ripe for that. it is a question if any people of the continent, untrained in english self-government, are ripe for it. we look to the czar for salvation, and to the czar alone."
"prince ukhtomski says much the same thing. he does not speak of liberal or conservative, but only of an intelligent party in russia, and he believes that an able minister could save the whole situation."
"i do not believe that for an instant. for, under the present circumstances, an able and honest minister cannot remain at court. there is only one[pg 242] salvation—a czar who is so educated for his task of ruling that he is not the plaything of a circle of courtiers, like our present good emperor."
"i have heard a saying of pobydonostzev, 'autocracy is good, but it involves an autocrat.'"
"certainly; even if it were not pobydonostzev's opinion. for brutality alone certainly will not do. we must have knowledge of the subject and strength of will."
"then the future must look very black to your excellency, if you await salvation from a new and better-trained czar. at present there is not even a prospect of a successor to the throne."
"it looks black enough. i have no hope at all. for what is hope to others is to me new ground for sorrow. we shall be defeated in asia. we shall have a financial crash—i. e., our long-existent bankruptcy can no longer be veiled by juggling with the budget; and then we shall have a repetition of the old game of revolutions and constitutions. some western ideas on constitution-making will be imported and will not work. there will come a reaction, and the hand of every man will be against every other...."
"then your excellency is opposed to the freedom of the press?"
"god forbid! a conservative régime is far from being a police régime. we must have a public opinion and a respectable press, and a press without freedom cannot be respectable. a press which is under[pg 243] strict laws but not under police tyranny, and an honorable government, can both be brought about more easily under an absolute monarchy than under parliamentary rule; but there will be no question of all this."
"i find hardly any essential difference between the ideas your excellency represents and those i have been hearing for months in russia."
"you cannot wonder at that. if you should ask me whether the snow out-of-doors is white or green, i also, as a conservative, can only answer that it is white. we are in a bad way; our peasantry is starving, our thinking class is in despair, our finances are ravaged. yet i believe that far more evil days are before us, and i thank god that i am an old man who has seen the worst."
so ended my interview with the conservative, whom i had sought out for the correction of the radical views i had heard. in the evening i had to make a report to my friends, who had waited it in suspense. my information created an immense sensation. something entirely different from the interview had been expected, and there was astonishment at hearing views as bitter as any one present could have formulated. had he permitted me to publish the conversation with his name?
"the conversation, but not his name," i answered.
a general "aha!" went up from all present.
"that is the way with our chinovniks," remarked[pg 244] some one; "in a tête-à-tête they are all liberal, and as soon as they are on the retired list they are all radical."
"i beg pardon. count x—— spoke with decision against a constitution, therefore he is not a liberal."
"we must beg of you," came in an almost unanimous chorus, "for heaven's sake, not to adopt this view and represent it abroad. it would be the greatest misfortune that could happen to us if the outer world should believe that we really are not ripe for a constitution. we do not need an english or a belgian constitution, to be sure, but a free parliament and a free press we do need. otherwise there is no reliance to be placed upon any reform, and the farther from the centre the more asiatic will be the rule of the satraps."
"my duty is to report and not to judge," said i, dryly. "i owe it to my authority to reproduce his views as he gave them to me. the only thing that i can do is to add your criticism to my report."
they were satisfied with this offer; and in accordance therewith i have reproduced the interview.
footnote:
[10] an interview with a russian conservative.
